BoogerMan, though I am an ex-JW and thus not invited to reply to your post, I make this reply anyway. The scriptural points you made (in the initial post of this topic thread) are a great insight to me, a figurative "eye opener" to me.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Question #1 for JW's to offer an explanation
by BoogerMan inthe r&f jw's are defined by the wtbts as antitypical "foreigners," and as such, are not participants of the new covenant:.
wt 98 2/1 p.19, par.
6 - "further, other sheep lay hold of the new covenant just as foreigners of old laid hold of the law covenant.
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Disillusioned JW
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Disillusioned JW
Temporary internet connectivity problems prevented me from revising the first part of my prior post to say "smiddy3, while I was a very active JW I also ...".
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Disillusioned JW
smiddy3, while a very active I also took offense (at least a few times) with the idea of Jehovah casting Satan to the Earth, and thus causing great trouble for humans, instead of God locking up Satan in the abyss or doing something else to him in a way that wouldn't harm humans.
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Date of Adam's "Creation?
by Slidin Fast inhow do jws resolve these conflicting facts.. 1. no matter how you spin it, bible chronology calculates to circa 4000 bc for adam's creation.
i followed the trail many years ago and that's what it adds up to.. 2. the most cursory investigation of any branch of relevant science puts man's habitation on the earth as hugely earlier than that.
it's now so well-proved that anyone disputing it is guilty of wilful ignorance.
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Disillusioned JW
Jeffro, your funny comment of " In the same way that a snail climbing a plant stalk gets closer to the moon" is a grossly exaggerated comparison of my stated 12,000 BCE date versus the 4000 BCE date. Teaching 12,000 BCE date instead of a 4000 BCE date means that one is teaching an age of the Homo sapiens species which is more than twice that of the 6,000 years calculation that is based on a date of 4000 BCE. The 12,000 BCE date means an age of more than 14,000 years. Scientists currently say that Homo sapiens have existed for about 300,000 years. 14,000 years is 4.67% of the current scientifically calculated age. In contrast the distance walked by a snail climbing a plant stalk is an extremely tinier percentage of the distance between the sea level of the Earth to the moon. A much more accurate comparison would be of a snail climbing the entire height of Mount Everest (about 5.5 miles above sea level) and thereby getting closer to the moon (which is an average of 238,855 miles from Earth).
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Disillusioned JW
When it comes to books about the Bible (including theology) produced for public (often at very low prices) the WTS, the publisher of the LDS, and the publishers of the SDA to to me to produce by far the most literature. But which Christian publishers, if any, produce more such literture? Also, which Christian publishers produce far better Bible literature for the general public than the WTS, while at the same time in large quantities?
Are Zondervan, Thomas Neslson, and Holman in that group and maybe Abingdon? What about Oxford and Cambridge? It seems to me they produce books by a large number of authors, since they are not specific to any particular religion of Christianity. In order to get a consistent Christian message, perhaps I should ask which publisher of a specific church/denomination of Christianity produces the best doctrinal literature about the Bible.
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540
Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: I had typos when I said the following. "My recollection is that Christ became king over the Christian congregation in 33 CE, but not king over the entire Earth at time. That is view which long held strong scriptural support to me." I should have said the following instead. "My recollection of WTS teaching is that Christ became king over the Christian congregation in 33 CE, but not king over the entire Earth at time. That view is one which long held strong scriptural support to me."
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Date of Adam's "Creation?
by Slidin Fast inhow do jws resolve these conflicting facts.. 1. no matter how you spin it, bible chronology calculates to circa 4000 bc for adam's creation.
i followed the trail many years ago and that's what it adds up to.. 2. the most cursory investigation of any branch of relevant science puts man's habitation on the earth as hugely earlier than that.
it's now so well-proved that anyone disputing it is guilty of wilful ignorance.
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Disillusioned JW
The dating of roughly 4,000 BCE (by various researchers of the Bible) for the date of the creation of Adam is based up the Hebrew OT, but based upon the Greek Septuagint Adam was created about 5,500 BCE years (when using an Ussher style method of tabulation). That is because a some of the numbers in the Greek text are larger than those in the Hebrew test. There is strong evidence of the Christians wrote the NT were using the Greek Septuagint Bible as their OT Bible instead of the Hebrew OT Bible.
Furthermore, a number of Bible scholars say that the Hebrew words translated as "son" in our Bibles don't only pertain to sons, but also to grandsons and great-grandsons, and great-great-grandsons (in other words, meaning 'male descendant') - and that thus the chronology of ancestries skips many generations. That then allows for a Bible based dating of the creation of Adam to even about 10,000 BCE to 12,000 BCE!. As a result that interpretation corresponds well with the year modern science says the most recent age ended and also about the time that agriculture began. Furthermore, they make the Bible based date of the creation of Adam a little bit closer to what modern science science says is when our species evolved into existence.
http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/chronology.html for some ideas along these lines, though those source are not necessarily authoritative. I do not necessarily agree with all that those sources say.
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Simple Question Re 1914
by Slidin Fast inwt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!
and the end times.
a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?
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Disillusioned JW
Vanderhaven7, from a scriptural point of view (according to one or more biblical verses) I think you might be correct in saying that Christ began king in the 1st century CE, but what about what Revelation says of Christ to become king in the future for 1000 years.
My recollection is that Christ became king over the Christian congregation in 33 CE, but not king over the entire Earth at time. That is view which long held strong scriptural support to me. Likewise even after I became an atheistic naturalist it still my view that the Bible teaches such (but of course I disbelieve in much of the Bible). Furthermore part of Revelation says that Christ will reign over the Earth at a time in which Satan is in the abyss for 1,000 years, and that that 1,000 period will follow the end of the battle of Armageddon.
What are your thoughts about Revelation in regards to the idea of Christ having become king in 33 CE.
I agree that the WTS has a very poor record of interpreting biblical prophecies (and even other biblical subjects) accurately. I am now really surprised about how small a percentage of the Bible the WTS interprets correctly. For example, I am lately impressed by what Sea Breeze has very recently said (in a topic thread about whether Jesus is Michael the archangel) about the Bible's meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words which are translated as "spirit". I am thus increasingly viewing most of the WTS's literature as mostly disadvantageous. That realization makes it increasingly disappointing to me that I have studied so much of the WTS literature for so long.
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Prediction of how Watchtower going to be in 5 Years.
by Foolednomore ini can see it that watchtower will become an online/tv based group with just con-vention hall$.. field service would be letter writing and phone preaching, door to door is done.. watchtower will have pay to view programs and still ask for donations after all that.. zoom meetings are here to stay.
kingdumb halls will be sold off except for con-vention venues, or need for new ones$.. df'ing will continue.
the craziness will continue.
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Disillusioned JW
LongHairGal, I was not offended.
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Prediction of how Watchtower going to be in 5 Years.
by Foolednomore ini can see it that watchtower will become an online/tv based group with just con-vention hall$.. field service would be letter writing and phone preaching, door to door is done.. watchtower will have pay to view programs and still ask for donations after all that.. zoom meetings are here to stay.
kingdumb halls will be sold off except for con-vention venues, or need for new ones$.. df'ing will continue.
the craziness will continue.
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Disillusioned JW
luckynedpepper, I don't know what the WTS means by "Meditation Center", only that it was said they are building something which they call a "Meditation Center". We know they are building a "Media Center" and it is said they are now also building a different kind of center.